(no subject)

[temetnosce]

I'm deeply concerned about the new rules on pillowfort, the fact that they banned an artist already, the use of the words "good faith" and "bad faith" in their discussion (good faith specifically is one of the terms we have issue with in the Article 13 situation), the precedent it sets and the arguments happening in the comments. Oh, and all the people who seem more offended that people are disrespecting the staff/the beta than the nature of the site's response to these issues.

As an example: If they want to get an app in the app store, they're gonna have to play by exactly the same rules, and this is an example of the actions they're going to take when they need to change them. It doesn't bode well.

Do go and read Dreamwidth's policy explained here. Note Denise's way of responding to those issues, with the experience of years of discussing and policing those issues.

I am leaving tumblr because I stand with the community and I stand with artists. If Pillowfort is going to treat artists just as unprofessionally based on the content they're producing, and on a whim, then I can't justify going there either. Which is frustrating af because people seem determined to go. Twitter offered no reprieve. If anything the influx of new users only made the wankstorm more profound and it's an even worse place to be than it was before.

Also I can barely load pillowfort, so... Guess I'm resolved. Dreamwidth or bust.

Comments

[li_izumi]

I'm still hedging my bets; i've got blogs on both, will be cross-posting on both for the time being. There are things i like better about one over the other; neither are perfect.

[lurea]

Is there a way to auto-cross post or are you doing it manually?

[temetnosce]

You can crosspost between DW and Insanejournal and Livejournal, but that's mostly because they're built from the same code. So crossposting to Pillowfort does still have to be done manually.

[li_izumi]

At the moment, doing manually. There looks like there might be a way to crosspost from WordPress (I just set that up, haven't tried it yet).

But in general, for my original content-stuff, I type everything up in Word or Gdocs first, and then copy paste into Tumblr (previously) and PF/DW (now), so copy-paste into a couple blogs isn't that much more work than doing it in one blog. And that means I already have a backup copy on my computer/gdrive should something happen to the blog site I'm on (having lived through FFN and LJ Strike through, I've always kept backups of my original content stuff)

[temetnosce]

For sure neither are perfect. I think I'm leaning more on DW because it's obviously a lot more finished, whereas Pillowfort still has a ways to go. I think I'll see where the TOS and the workability of the platform is when time has rolled on a little bit, but at the moment DW is reliable, and that's what I need most when backing up my old content. I don't think I'll be missed on PF, and if in time it turns out that the platform is sturdy then no harm no foul (especially if they find a better way to deal with content they don't want on the site).

[li_izumi]

That's fair and understandable stance. Right now, everything feels pretty up in the air. I hope the dust settles sooner rather than later and we can see where the chips have landed. The uncertainty of the fandom migration (or lack of migration) is the really frustrating part to me.

[temetnosce]

The lack of migration is frustrating, yeah. A lot of people on tumblr seem to have gone back to business as usual, which is just aggravating to me on so many different levels. You'd think nothing had changed.

[li_izumi]

I'm torn; on one hand, I've spent 5 years on Tumblr, I have built up followers, I've cultivated my dash, there's a lot of content, I'm familiar with it. I stayed on LJ for years after Strikethrough because that's where my friends were (my RP fandom peeps, we went elsewhere, but for chatting with my friends, we stayed on LJ). I don't want to have to start over.

On the other hand, I don't like what Tumblr is doing, and I don't want to condone their actions.

So at the moment, I'm everywhere, I'm trying to help build communities here, at Pillowfort, maintain my Tumblr. See what happens, where people go, try to help support the new options.

[temetnosce]

I think it's really a wider issue for me. What tumblr is doing is just part of what the wider internet is starting to try and do. They had all the power to dig in and oppose some of the lawmaking that's behind the changes, and FOSTA/SESTA is one of those things, you know? If these kinds of corporate based websites are going to understand that monetizing their content producers means protecting them and continuing to deliver on their promises even when it's not as profitable, then every effort has to be gone to, I think, to make them listen. Facebook is starting to see its market share slip, hopefully so will tumblr.

It's not ideal by any means. It sucks to have a backlog of content and have built up followers and made friends and have to move that, because the effort gets thrown on us. But when it's that or silent acceptance that they can do whatever they like no matter who and what it harms, it doesn't feel like I have a choice.

That's not gonna be a universal feeling though, like I said below. People, especially young folks, are gonna take this as not that bad, or actually think that it's a good thing, and they'll stick to tumblr cause it's easier. Some people seem to expect the site to die in the spring and I don't think it's that simple. It has too much content already built into it to do that, and one of the things that especially bothers me with that is that the content producers can leave but they can't delete their content; they can't rob tumblr of the thing that, once those people are gone, will continue to make tumblr money in clicks. Or: I hate reblogging and it's bad D=

[lurea]

I was just thinking this today too. Um....why are we still acting like its business as usual, people. But I guess the average user age on Tumblr maybe skews younger and they're not ready to leave yet. For me, I'm like, well, the writing's on the wall. Plus, although I can enjoy Tumblr, the pace of constant input is overwhelming sometimes. I like my reading page here so much better.

[temetnosce]

I have to admit it'll be nice to not feel like I have to be on tumblr to share my content. I haven't had time to read fic in months and it's so sad, cause I love reading but I just never have time. Tumblr was sucking a lot of that time just from the endless scrolling feature. Young folks will inevitably stay because they think it's just the porn being kicked off and they're happy with that. It's like fanfiction.net like that, I guess. They don't see it necessarily in the same way as a betrayal of the userbase and symbolic of how that's going to continue, but my experience with other websites is they always get worse, and the content always gets watered down and shared without restrictions, and then nobody has a safe space.

[majestic_duxk]

me too. which is why I just deleted. I don't want to support it. I will not support. I even trawled through my email addresses and discovered I had 5 tumblrs, so they are all deleted as well, even though they were SFW.

[lurea]

I agree. I've gotten pillowfort to load...like twice... and there's constant lag. Supposedly Pillowfort is by fans for fans, but unless those fans are professional enough to understand how to run a business then that's no guarantee it will even survive long enough to have those problems...

As for that banning and change to the TOS... UGH. I am just throwing my hands up in frustration. If that's an example of how they deal with fandom then They Do Not Get It!! Fan art of fictional characters is not child porn. Fanfiction of fictional characters is not child porn. And Denise is *right on* when she talks about how discussions of porn are too often hidden ways of controlling the sexuality and sexual expression of women/LGBT+/others.

[temetnosce]

It doesn't bode well, I think. The reason that AO3 skirts on this sort of thing with their TOS is because it's usually just the most winnable argument for the puritan police. I don't like looking at that stuff either, but it's the first step out on a wiggly moral bridge. It opens the door to discussing what other kind of content is or isn't okay, and was sort of one of my problems with Pillowfort promoting itself as a safe space. A safe space for whom? Maybe right now they're coming for something I don't like or agree with (like on tumblr with the erotica folks saying it's not about us so we're fine), but it's a slippery slope, you know? (I'm gonna add to this in another comment down the way)

[hit_the_books]

All I know at the moment is that this is making organising for fan creation events a pain in the arse.

I've setup Dreamwidth for everything I run and Pillowfort bar one (waiting on an invite).

The Saturday before Tumblr BS kicked off, I'd just co-launched the latest round of the SPN Dystopia Bang and the first ever round of Check, Please! Kink Bingo. And none of this is helping.

We've got whole communities fragmenting and the ability to signal boost reduced by quite a bit.

[temetnosce]

Yeah that's really such a problem as well. I don't see how you can do something right now without crossposting to death in all those places, which must make it even more exhausting. I remember the same thing happening back when LJ fell apart. I'd fallen out of fandom at the time, and it took almost a decade to find where everyone else had moved to. Advertising on Discords is probably something you can do too, but maybe you can bring on a mod just for crossposting? Part of it has to be choosing a platform and sticking with it for updates as a primary comm, if people are interested in it they'll go there (like with the spn reverse bang on LJ). I agree it's not great though and I wouldn't want to be running or even joining another bang or bingo at the moment (I already missed the Pinefest deadline)

I've had problems getting any information out at all, and to my surprise there's more activity and conversation here than in my tumblr (apart from reblogs of old content which seem to be going full swing just like it's a normal week) and definitely more investment here than on pillowfort.

[nellerie]

Thank you for this, I agree. Most people seem to think that disagreeing to these rules means being a pedophile and I've been quiet about it on twitter because of this.
While I would be happy to never, ever in my life ever see any art of anime children in sexual poses I don't condone censorship... and the explanation of the rule (and the fact they banned someone BEFORE that rule) is just so... weird. I don't know. I feel pretty good on here although the problem here is that you can't just be online... you have to INTERACT so it's kind of hard to do it for 5 minutes while you're on a break. But it's definitely friendlier and more professional than PF.

[temetnosce]

I find that really bothersome, actually. There's people on that post who are very happily slamming other people when they say this is where they draw the line as being pedos, and where are the mods of Pillowfort when that's going down? Some of it borders on bullying, which they say is against their TOS, but it's like some bullying is okay, so long as it's in support of staff? Calling someone as pedo cause they think the rules are badly considered and badly delivered is hella bullying in my book. If you're afraid of speaking out because you're gonna be labeled offensively by someone who doesn't know you, then what else can you call it?

I agree with that whole second part as well. I'm not into it myself. I know why some people who do it do it, and honestly what other people find sexy in their own homes, if it's not hurting anyone else (or animals) they can do what they like. People like to walk out the idea that underage art/fic leads to real life pedophilia, but if real life crime were massively caused by digital art, there would have been an uptick in beastiality when My Little Pony became popular, you know?

btw with Dreamwidth, you don't have to interact. I mean, I know we're building a community and that's obviously super important at the moment, but lurking is a group activity on this kind of site XD If you don't want to interact right now, or you want to just watch how other people are conversing, you can use 'add memory' to bookmark the page for later or 'track this' to track later comments, both of which mean you can put off engagement for later. It's super chill (and certainly way more than on tumblr where if you aren't there for the content it just gets drowned in reblogs and you lose it forever).

[lustyshipper]

Well I for one am really glad you're here, I hope we can both call this place Home. I'm still bitter about tumblr because I had mine for 3 years. :(